Colonial Diasporas & Traditional Vietnamese Society
The Colonial Diasporas and their Displacing Effects on the Traditional Vietnamese Society
What is the essence of the Vietnamese cultural history?
In National Geographic Traveler: Vietnam (2006) by James Sullivan, the motif used for the non-experts to understand Vietnamese history and culture is that of “the smaller dragon.” For more than a thousand years:
China controlled Vietnam as a vassal state, setting the stage for a cultural reorientation that goes right down to the marrow of what it means to be Vietnamese…[to] have absorbed the politics, religion, sociology, and arts of China to refine their own…There are, of course, cultural differences. But after more than 2,000 years of shared history, the similarities, especially to the traveler, remain obvious. [1]
Such perspective is not indicative of the current scholarship on Vietnamese history and culture. However, Sinologists, Indologists, pre-historians, and geographers writing before the mid-1960s did see Vietnam as “the smaller dragon.” These scholars regarded Vietnamese society, along with other Southeast Asian societies, in prehistoric time as having no roots and stuck fast in the stone-age. Such societies, according to French scholar Georges Coedes, “seem to have been lacking in creative genius and showed little aptitude for making progress without stimulus from outside.” [2]
Vietnam was fortunate, however, according to this view. Because it was a meeting ground of cultural influences from China, northern Vietnam became a receiver or a loan culture of a unidirectional diffusion and migration from an advanced agricultural economy, technology and mercantile activities of China. [3] From such contact, Vietnam entered history and established a centralized state which began to flourish in the early Christian era, whereas the “tribes” of Southeast Asian prehistory did not know how to rule. [4]
From 111 B.C. to 939 Vietnam was annexed to China, but “far from having worn down that invincibility, seems instead to have strengthened it.” It is this spirit of resistance through cohesion and formal structure that has been “the key answer to her historic problems.”
[5] Yet, these same observers believed that Vietnamese invincibility has been the result of Chinese influence through a spirit that
“combines amazing powers of assimilation.” Illustrative is Henri Maspero’s conclusion on early Vietnamese history:
[If Vietnamese] was able for centuries to resist Chinese aggression…it is indebted to Ma Yuan for this advantage [who defeated the Trung Sisters' Rebellion in 43 A.D.]..for it was the Chinese conquerer who, in destroying the old political institutions of Tonkin [northern Vietnam], cast this country for good into the stream of Chinese civilization, thereby giving it that strong Chinese reinforcement which allowed it to play the primary role in the history of eastern Indochina since the tenth century. [6]
Thus, areas of northern Vietnam were considered “Sincized” or little China; while areas of southern Vietnam were considered as “Indianized” or little India. At best, historians writing before the mid-1960s like John Cady and Joseph Buttinger held that Southeast Asian civilizations were imported but evolved as individual adaptations. In some cases, the modifications illustrate local genius of the more advanced culture of China and/or India and that is precisely what makes them Indochinese and why the territory may properly be called Indochina. [7]
On the one hand, migration through colonial diasporas have in many ways transformed Vietnam cultural history both in prehistoric and historic times. (For a theoretical discussion about the two types of diasporas in Vietnamese history — that of colonial diaspora and victim diaspora — see Conceptualizing Displacement). On the other hand, the effects of colonial diasporas — the imposition of foreign culture — will depend on the types of aggrandizement that colonists engaged in expanding their control, and of which will be interrelated with the colonized society’s physical size and the durability of its indigenous institutions prior to the external linkages between the colonizers and the colonized. (For a theoretical discussion of the above, see Types of Colonial Rules).
According to recent works by archaeologists, linguists, and geneticists, the colonial diasporas that had direct transformative effects on the traditional Vietnamese society is that of the Austroasiatic agricultural colonists, starting about 3000 to 1000 B.C. The migration of Austroasiatic “agricultural colonists” transformed the semi-/shifting agricultural societies of Australo-Melanesian, cumulating into two periods of Neolithic/Bronze and Iron Ages in northern Vietnam. The cultural significance of this is the solid evidence of a rich and vibrant Vietnamese civilization before Chinese arrival, as well as a proto-Vietnamese language along with cultural traditions that survived, though later they took on external influences through intimate contact with foreign colonial powers.
By the time “the first major imposition of northern influence” arrived, that of Thuc Phan and his Ou Yueh (Au Viet) military personnel, [8] the indigenous Lac society was well established whose physical size must have been considerable and whose language, cultural traditions, and class structures were effectively durable and stable. That is, while Thuc Phan’s army had displaced the Lac society, his reign did not mark any large scale movement of people in sufficient magnitude to account for the origin of a people, [9] or had left any mark on the Vietnamese language. [10]
In fact, the earliest spirit of an indigenous invincibility to resist foreign rule was the Lac lords. Their ability to ‘localize’ and ‘resist’ the colonial imposition of Thuc Phan in 257 B.C. and until the arrival of Ma Yuan in 43 A.D., illustrates more accurately the essence of Vietnamese culture: “displacement but never replacement.” While the earliest name of the Vietnamese people (that of Lac) had been replaced by Viet, the Vietnamese language and particular cultural traditions (such as the belief that the Vietnamese people originated from Lac Long Quan and Au Co) owe its heritage to the ancient Lac society.
The following is a brief outline of the colonial diasporas in and their displacing effects on Vietnamese history: that of Austroasiatic colonial diasporas and Ou Yueh (Au Viet) colonial diaspora; the next online classroom will discuss the Chinese colonial diaporas, French diaspora, and the Japanese diaspora.
Austroasiatic Colonial Diasporas (3000-1000 B.C.)
Native speakers of Vietnamese today can claim descent from “the foundation movements of the major agriculturalist language families of Southeast Asia,” specifically that of Austroasiatic. [11] That is, the Vietnamese language, a Mon-Khmer language of the Austroasiastic family, at least by one reputable opinion, is believed to “derive from the earliest agricultural colonization of mainland Southeast Asia, a process possibly commencing out of southern China about 3000 B.C.” [12] Another reputable opinion is that “it is also possible that Austroasiatic languages were widely dispersed on the mainland of Southeast Asia before the Neolithic Period (also referred to as ‘the primitive agricultural stage’) and that rice farming was taken up by some of these groups in appropriate habitats from earlier rice cultivators in the north, who may have belonged to the Hmong-Mien language family.” [13]
Notwithstanding, from 11000 B.C. to 3000 B.C., the area of northern Vietnam was settled by societies of Australo-Melanesian hunters and gatherers (also termed the Hoabinhians) and later, by those who practiced simple plant cultivation (also termed the Basconians). Archaeological evidence from these sites suggests that these societies before 3000 B.C. made pottery, grew crops and kept animals. Bone materials from a wide range of mammal species were found, including pig, deer, dog, elephant, rhinoceros and cattle. Perhaps with the exception of pigs and dogs, none of these species appear to have been domesticated. [14] When heavy core tools appeared starting around 8000 B.C., it clearly demonstrated the Australo-Melanesian’s innovation rather than inertia, as the transition from hunting to a greater dependence on plant food began in this region. [15]
There is little doubt, however, that starting about 3000 B.C., the semi-agricultural societies in northern Vietnam were confronted by a major agriculturalist language family of Austroasiatic who were also known for their advancement in rice cultivation, [16] while Australo-Melanesian societies in central/southern Vietnam were confronted by agriculturalist/seafaring language family of Austronesian. The arrival of this agriculturalist language group “displaced” the Austro-Melanesian societies, as is evident by a complete shift to agriculture at least in northern (lowland) Vietnam.
In regard to the purpose and scope of the Austroasiatic migrants’ aggrandizement, evidence supports the theory that demographic conditions in southern China (possibly due to increasingly large and sedentary populations which arise from advancement in agricultural productivity) facilitated their migration. [17] Perhaps because the Australo-Melanesian societies lacked hierarchal or centralized social structures due to the ‘slash and burn’ of their shifting agriculture, they were not able to resist the arrival of the Austroasiatic migrants. If we presume that there were earlier waves of Austroasiatic migrants, then these may have served as linkages that facilitated the spread of Austroasiatic “agricultural colonists into a world peopled by fairly sparse groups of hunters and gatherers.” [18]
This migration process possibly commences out of southern China where, in prehistoric times, the Austroasiatic language family — along with other language groups such the Hmong-Mien, Tai, and Asutonesian — were the early ancestors of this territory before the arrival of Sinitic language family, such as the Sino-Tibetan. [19] The migration of these agriculturalist language families, especially the Austroasiatic and Austonesian, basically carried the proto-languages that gradually and eventually became the major languages of Southeast Asia through the mainland and the islands. [20] Thus, archaeologists and linguists have described southern China in prehistory and early history as geographically and culturally Southeast Asian, although eventually these “southern cultures” underwent “Sinicization.” [21]
From 3000-1000, the area of northern Vietnam experienced the passage of new cultures — that of the more settled agricultural societies with advanced agricultural techniques and of proto-Austroasiatic language. If we presume that the concept of migrations in ancient times “involved a relatively small group of ruling class people, whose mastery of political and military affairs was felt throughout the linguistic and cultural scene,” then we may speculate that there was a longer, slower process of intermarriage and adaptation between Austroasiatic migrants and the Australo-Melanesians (some may have retreated to highlands of northern Vietnam), rather than a total displacement and a wholesale overrunning of the latter. Recent studies support this view in which genetic data in Southeast Asia does not point clearly to the total replacement of the Australo-Melanesians, and that the proto-Austroasiatic and Austronesian languages were doubtlessly localized, by semi-agricultural peoples; [22] moreover, the region’s shared cultural symbols such as betel chewing has been established well before 3000 B.C. [23]
Nevertheless, the migration of Austroasiatic “agricultural colonists’ cumulated into two periods of Neolithic/Bronze (as late as 1500, known as the Phung Nguyen culture) and Iron Ages (starting as late as 500 B.C., known as the Dong Son culture) [24] in northern Vietnam. In the former, there is solid evidence for cultivation of rice, along with a broader range of cultural material, such as stone arrowheads and knives, baked clay spindle whorls and bow pellets, and pottery with incised and comb-stamped decoration. [25] Pottery in this period has been considered to be directly ancestral to the pottery of the archaeological Dong-Son society of the first millennium B.C, [26] which gives further support of a cultural continuity throughout the prehistoric occupation of the Red River valley. [27]
The Dong Son culture may have played a large role in the dissemination of bronze-working technology. [28] While is likely that there was constant interaction between southern China region and northern Vietnam (as well as stimulus from the former to the latter) after about 300 B.C., the classical Dong Son drums (also termed Heger I drums) that exemplified the cultural period were likely to have been manufactured in northern Vietnam. [29] The “roots” of the Dong Son culture, whose indigenous development of the bronze style is little beyond doubt, [30] may well extend back to at least 1000 B.C., antedating any significant northern influence. In regard to the social and historical evidence for the Dong-Son period, evidence suggests the existence of a stratified society, perhaps under the rule of a single center, as attested by the textual inference of Van Lang (Kingdom), Hung (field/king/lords), and Lac [field/king/lords] in Chinese historical records, [31] which may have commenced as early as the seventh century B.C. [32]
The cultural significance of Neolithic/Bronze and Iron Ages in northern Vietnam is that the solid consensus that there was a rich and vibrant Vietnamese civilization before Chinese arrival, as well as a proto-Vietnamese language along with cultural traditions that survived, though later they took on external influences through intimate contact with foreign colonial powers both in classical and modern times. The migration of the Austroasiatic “agricultural colonists” could be considered a classic case of cultural diffusion of as well as a direct stimulus to the Australo-Melanesian semi-/shifting agricultural societies in which such diffusion gradually developed into indigenous Vietnamese civilization.
From Chinese historical records (existing only in quotations in later Chinese works between the third and fifth centuries A.D.):
In Kau-tsi [Chiao Chih, northern Vietnam]…when there were neither commanderies nor prefectures [that is prior to Chinese rule], the land was in lak [lac] fields. In these fields the [level of the] water used to rise and fall in accordance with the [rise and fall of the] tides. The folk who brought these fields into cultivation were called Lak [Lac]. Subsequently, a Lak [Lac] king was instituted and Lak [Lac] lords appointed to govern commanderies and prefectures, [as well as] prefectural officials entitled to bronze zeals and green ribbons [which were symbols of investiture used by Ch'in and Han dynasties]. [33]
Another quotation which appeared later in Chinese sources — though somewhat at variance to the above — described northern Vietnam before Chinese rule as:
Its soil is black and rich…so that these fields are called jiung [hung] fields, and the people [who cultivate them] jiung [hung] folk. There is a chief similarly styled the Jiung [Hung] King, whose aides are also called Jiung [Hung] lords. The territory is apportioned among jiung [hung] officials. [34]
These two different traditions have been conjectured. For example, Henri Maspero has claimed that Hung was an error for Lac and concluded that there never were Hung kings. [35] Others, however, have found occurrences of Hung as a family name and that it is well attested in southwest China that it derives from a Mon-Khmer title of chieftainship. [36] If we were to accept the first tradition, then even a conservation conjecture would be that the “lac field were…the creations of an indigenous folk and consequently shared their ethnic attribution” whose chieftains commanded some form of social power. [37]
Notwithstanding, the word Lac is the earliest recorded name for the Vietnamese people and we can conjecture that Lac existed before 257 B.C. and with the arrival of Thuc Phan (King An Duong), who may have some association with the Ou Yueh/Viet lords, was able to survive by forming the political union of Au Lac (Au is simply the Vietnamese pronunciation of Ou). While the word Lac disappeared when the Trung sisters and more than five thousand of their supporters were beheaded in their revolt against Han rule in 43 A.D., it was the factor that united the legendary Hung kings and the early “northern” influences and domination of Thuc Phan, Chao T’o, and early Han governors.
Meanwhile in central Vietnam, the semi-agricultural peoples and earlier Austroasiatic migrants were confronted by the migration of the Austronesian agricultural/seafaring colonists. Thus, central Vietnam starting by 2000 B.C. was being populated by the Austronesian language family. In particular, the Austronesian Chamic languages probably displaced earlier Austroasiatic languages and have been displaced in turn by Vietnamese expansion down the coast after the release of the latter from Chinese domination in the tenth century A.D. (Bellwood, 1979, 112-113). Though it should not be taken for granted, the amount of connections, contacts, and loosely knit multiethnic confederations among the various cultures located in northern Vietnam, northeastern coastal and central Vietnam. In fact, this would explain why Vietnamese language, a Mon-Khmer language of the Austroasiastic family, has clearly recognizable loans from Austronesian and later developed into a tonal language (likely borrowed from the Tai language group who spread into the region at a later date). Such contact is given visual form in the in the art of the Dong Son bronze drums, where sea birds and amphibians surround boats bearing warriors, revealing a ruling class perspective heavily influenced by Astronesian culture.
Ou Yueh (Au Viet) Colonial Diaspora (258-207 B.C.)
According to the traditional Chinese historiography, the “birth” of Vietnam originated from the refugee population of Yueh, was an ethnical branch of the Chinese race, located along the coast where the Yangtze River enters the sea. In 333 B.C., the state of Yueh was conquered by Ch’u, which was founded by a noble house closely linked with the Chou court (1027-256 B.C.) and was supposedly dispatched from central Yangtze to “colonize” the South. [38] Consequently, the Yueh ruling class migrated southward, to an area which included the lower valley of the Hong River in northern Vietnam, and established small kingdoms and principalities that Chinese historians referred to as the “Hundred Yueh.”
The above Chinese expansion, as noted by John Whitmore, set off disturbances throughout the south in which “one consequence appears to have been the Shu/Thuc [Thuc is Vietnamese for Shu] invasion of the Red River Delta in the third century B.C.” [39] Thuc Phan is the first figure in Vietnamese history documented by historical sources, although much of what we know about his origin and his reign as King An Duong has survived in legendary forms. [40] According to Keith Taylor, Thuc Phan and his family were pushed southward by Chinese expansion, which “surely forced upon them some association with the Ou Yueh lords,” who were located on the frontier of northwestern Vietnam.
The linkage between the Ou Yueh and the Lac society in northern Vietnam was one of military invasion. It is thought that the growing number of dispossessed Ou Lords caused by Chinese expansion created a context in which there was a call to recoup their fortunes by invading their southern neighbor. [41] This call was led by Thuc Phan. According to reliable sources, Thuc Phan invaded northern Vietnam with his army of thirty thousand, where the timing of the military invasion was probably opportunistic; that is, when Lac society was weak.
The arrival of Thuc Phan in the Hong River plain became “the first major imposition of northern influence in historic times” [42] and was “the opening wedge for ‘Yueh’ influence in Hong River Plain.” [43]
In regard to the purpose and scope of Ou Yueh’s aggrandizement, we can speculate that it is dynastic in nature — that is, it probably reflected the personality and was conducted in the name of Thuc Phan. Yet, most of what we know about Thuc Phan is mostly from legendary tales. For example, from the legend of the golden turtle, a golden turtle assisted Thuc Phan in subduing the local spirits so that Thuc Phan could finish his citadel at Co Loa. Before departing, the turtle gave Thuc Phan one of his claws to be used as the trigger of the king’s crossbow, assuring that he could destroy any enemy. By some accounts, this turtle claw symbolizes the military nature of Thuc Phan’s conquest and reign, suggesting his rule was based on force or the threat of force. [44]
However, unlike the Austroasiatic colonial diasporas, the Ou Yueh’s aggrandizement was not a classic case of cultural diffusion and appeared in general not to have direct and stimulus effects on Lac society. That is, the arrival of Ou Yueh lords and military personnel did not mark any large scale of sufficient magnitude to account for the origin of a people. [45] In addition, there is no evidence the Thuc Phan’s arrival left any mark on the Vietnamese language or caused any demographic change. [46] However, Thuc Phan did built a great citadel at Co Loa which was his capital and may contributed to the development of the canal-irrigated rice fields that were present in northern Vietnam before 111 B.C.; as well as a centralized state in which, according to a Chinese census of 2 A.D., over a million people populated northern Vietnam. [47]
Yet, the key reason why Thuc Phan’s arrival did not transform the Lac society was merely the fact that the latter was a well established civilization whose physical size must have been considerable and whose language, cultural traditions, and class structures were effectively durable and stable. This is in the sense that Thuc Phan’s reign was not able to disinherit the Lac society’s language, the Lac lords, or cultural motifs such as tattooing, betel chewing, and oral tradition.
For instance, recent research shows that the initial settlement of Co Loa started about 2000 B.C. Starting about 500 B.C., [48] “there was a move in some lowland river locales, from village autonomy towards centralized chiefdoms, occurring approximately at the same time when the knowledge of iron-working was being established in Southeast Asia and slightly earlier than initial direct contact with Chinese and Indian civilization.” [49] The evidence that more than 200 Dong Son style drums have been found throughout the Southeast Asia region suggests that the Lac society was engaging in sophisticated intraregional trade, prior to the infusion of Chinese modes of authority and trading techniques.
Notwithstanding, Thuc Phan’s ensuing conquest produced a fusion of the invading Ou (Au) Yueh lords and the resident Lac lords, thereby forming the kingdom of Au Lac. [50] Thuc Phan was apparently absorbed in the legendary traditions as King An Duong who came from the north and built a great capital but eventually fell prey to stronger forces coming from central China. [51]
But probably the lasting effect of Thuc Phan’s reign is that his arrival, that of the Ou Yueh, in northern Vietnam was utilized by the Chinese traditional historiography to demarcate the origin of the Vietnamese people, and perhaps because of the above simplicity of this, such perspective “still continued to attract attention.” [52]
Although Vietnamese are believed to have originated from the migration of the Yueh, as caused by the growing Chinese expansion in the third century A.D., it is more or less reflective of the ever present reality that the traditional Vietnamese society was displaced by Chinese colonial diasporas starting after the fall of Thuc Phan in 207 B.C.
For example, the word “Viet” is the Vietnamese pronunciation of the Chinese term Yueh, which is employed by Chinese scholars as synonyms of “barbarian.” When the Ch’in dynasty came to power in 222 B.C., it deployed a general, Chao T’o (Trieu Da in Vietnamese) to invade the southern Yueh lands and to establish a Chinese southern state, including conquering Thuc Phan and his Ou Yueh lords. By 207 B.C., Chao T’o created a capital near modern Canton, commanding the Kwantung and Kwangsi Provinces, and the Red River Delta of northern Vietnam, and proclaiming himself King of Nan Yueh (Nam Viet).
During Chinese direct conquest of northern Vietnam in 43 A.D., the word Yueh/Viet increasingly came to express the conquered people’s place within the “middle kingdom.” For the Chinese rulers, Yueh/Viet was to be temporary since these people would eventually be civilized and become Chinese. For the Vietnamese, after the beheading of more than five thousand Lac lords who were associates of the Trung Sisters’ rebellion against the Han dynasty in 41 A.D., their name Lac was no longer of account, whereas the name Yueh/Viet carried some weight. [53]
On the one hand, the word Viet connotes displacement and a permanent identity within the Chinese world view, but Viet also is rooted in a conviction not to be Chinese. [54] This conviction will later indicate that, while Vietnamese were displaced, they were never replaced. However, such displacement does require the reconstruction of cultural identity in order to first survive and later, to put back the “place” into displacement.
Although the original Lac society eventually disappeared, there are still traces of their traditions. According to Gerald Hickey, characteristics of the Lac society can still be found today among Vietnam’s highlanders, particularly those speaking Mon Khmer languages. [55]These include the practice of levirate (that is, a man must marry the widow of his childless brother in order to maintain the brother’s line); having special deities associated with agriculture; and having a “dinh” or communal house temple for the guardian sprite of the village. [56]
It has been speculated that the Mon Khmer speakers are linguistically related to the Lac people, but the former chose to retreat to the country’s highlands when the northern forces came to the country. So, if we want to examine the degree that “an indigenous core of ‘Vietnameseness’ survived unscathed through the fire of Chinese domination,” as we may look to the Mon Khmer highlanders.
1. Nguyen Dinh Hoa, “An Outline of Vietnamese,” Vietnam Forum, Vol.11, 1988, (p.1-20).
- Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
- What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced”?
- Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
- What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
- What do Confucian values say about women status?
- What does the oral tradition say about women status?
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[1] John Sullivan, National Geographic Traveler: Vietnam (Washington, D.C.: National Geographic, 2006), p.28.
[2] Georges Coedes, The Indianized States of Southeast Asia. Translated by S.B. Cowing, ed. W.F. Vella (Honolulu: East-West Center Press, 1968), p.13
[3] Such a prevailing view appeared to have disregarded postulations that Southeast Asia could have been a “maker” of history rather than a receiver or a victim. For example, in the early 1950s geographer Carl Sauer hypothesizes that the region should have been a center of plant domestication. See his Agricultural Origins and Dispersals (New York: George Grady Press, 1952).
[4] Georges Coedes, The Indianized States of Southeast Asia, p.268, 403.
[5] John McAlister and Paul Mus, The Vietnamese and Their Revolution (New York: Harper and Row, 1970), p.50.
[6] Keith Taylor, “An Evaluation of the Chinese Period in Vietnamese History,” The Journal of Asiatic Studies (Korea University), 23 (1980), p.139.
[7] John Cady, Southeast Asia: Its Historical Development (New York: McGraw-Hill, 1964), p.4; Joseph Buttinger, The Smaller Dragon: A Political History of Vietnam (New York: Frederick A. Praeger, 1958), p.19.
[8] John Whitmore, “Foreign Influences and the Vietnamese Cultural Core,” p.25.
[9] Ibid., p.17.
[10] Ibid., p.17.
[11] Peter Bellwood, “The Origins and Dispersals of Agricultural Communities in Southeast Asia,” in Ian Glover and Peter Bellwood, ed., Southeast Asia: From Prehistory to History (London and New York: RoutledgeCurzon, 2004), p.22.
[12] Ian Glover and Peter Bellwood, Southeast Asia: From Prehistory to History (London and New York: RoutledgeCurzon, 2004), p.11.
[13] Ibid., p.11.
[14] Peter Bellwood, Man’s Conquest of the Pacific (New York: Oxford University Press, 1979), p.87.
[15] Miksic, 1995, p.49.
[16] Peter Bellwood, “The Origins and Dispersals of Agricultural Communities,” p.22.
[17] Ibid., p.23.
[18] Ibid., 24.
[19] Ibid., p.21-23.
[20] Ibid., p.22.
[21] Though some still include south China (but not Burma), as a part of mainland Southeast Asia. See Peter Bellwood’s Man’s Conquest of the Pacific.
[22] Peter Bellwood, “The Origins and Dispersals of Agricultural Communities,” p.22.
[23] Peter Bellwood, Man’s Conquest of the Pacific, p.71
[24] Charles Higham, “Mainland Southeast Asia from the Neolithic to the Iron Age,” in in Ian Glover and Peter Bellwood, ed., Southeast Asia: From Prehistory to History,p.41.
[25] Peter Bellwood, Man’s Conquest of the Pacific, p.96.
[26] Ibid., p.96
[27] Charles Higham, The Archaeology of Mainland Southeast Asia: From 10,000 B.C. to the Fall of Angkor (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1989), p.193.
[28] Peter Bellwood, Man’s Conquest of the Pacific, p.129.
[29] Ibid., p.122.
[30] Bayard, 1980, 106
[31] Keith Taylor, The Birth of Vietnam (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1983), Appendix B; Paul Wheatley, Nagara and Commandery (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1983), p.67-69.
[32] Keith Taylor, The Birth of Vietnam, Appendix D.
[33] Paul Wheatley, Nagara and Commandery, p.67
[34] Ibid., p.69
[35] Henri Maspero also concluded that Van Lang was an error for Yeh-Lang, the name of ancient kingdom in Kuei-Chou. Thus, there never was a kingdom of Van Lang.
[36] Keith Taylor, The Birth of Vietnam, Appendix B.
[37] Paul Wheatley, Nagara and Commandery, p.68.
[38] Blakeley, Barry “The Geography of Chu” in Defining Chu: Image and Reality in Ancient China, Ed. By constance A. Cook and John S. Major, Honolulu: Hawaii Press, 1999, 10
[39] John Whitmore, “Foreign Influences and the Vietnamese Cultural Core,” in D.R. SarDesai, Southeast Asian History: Essential Readings (Los Angeles: Westview Press, 2006), p.25.
[40] Keith Taylor, The Birth of Vietnam, p.21.
[41] Ibid., p.20.
[42] John Whitmore, “Foreign Influences and the Vietnamese Cultural Core,” p.25.
[43] Keith Taylor, The Birth of Vietnam, p.17.
[44] Ibid., p.21.
[45] Ibid., p.17.
[46] Ibid., p.17.
[47] Peter Bellwood, Man’s Conquest of the Pacific, p.125.
[48] Charles Higham, “Mainland Southeast Asia,” p.46.
[49] Charles Higham, The Archaeology of Mainland Southeast Asia, p.30
[50] Keith Taylor, The Birth of Vietnam, p.20.
[51] Ibid., p.23.
[52] Ibid., Appendix E.
[53] Ibid., p.43.
[54] Ibid., p. xviii.
[55] Gerald Hickey, Sons of the Mountains: Ethnohistory of the Vietnamese Central Highlands to 1954 (New Haven: Yale University of Press, 1982), p.62-63.
[56] Georges Coedes, The Making of South East Asia. Translated by H.M. Wright (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1966), p.218.
Posts
• Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
Vietnamese is not genetically related to Chinese, it belongs to the Mon-Khmer stock, within the Austro-Asiatic family, which comprises several major language groups spoken in a wide area running from Chota Nagpur eastward to Indochina. This is according to the pdf file, however before reading this article I always thought Vietnamese was genetically related because Chinese “Han Ngu†always has a direct translation in Viet Ngu. Being a mandarin student, that’s how I always got by when studying Chinese because I was able to translate the Chinese words into viet form. Chinese for example has a lot of “Thanh Ngu,†four word phrases that Chinese people use to describe certain things. For example, “Mei Ren Ru Yu†can be translated directly to viet “My Nhan Nhu Ngoc,†which is used to compare a woman’s beauty to a piece of jade – both equally beautiful. I consider the two languages related if words and meanings are able to be translated that way. Well, after reading further into the text what I’m trying to describe here is “chu nom†versus “modern Vietnamese.â€
Also, if Sino-Vietnamese pronunciation is based on the pronunciation of Ancient Chinese then how are the two not genetically related?
• What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
I think what enables the Vietnamese language to never be replaced is the fact that there are Vietnamese worldwide to pass on the language and culture. One can tell today that Vietnamese culture has not been replaced; otherwise myths such as Lac Long Quan and Au Co would not still be known today. Vietnamese heritage can still be traced, is still being traced and always be remembered because it is passed on. No matter in the past how many times Vietnam was invaded and ruled by different ethnics, Vietnamese spirit still lives on. Vietnamese people still cling on to their beliefs, they adapt to whoever is ruling them at the time but the root of Vietnamese heritage is not forgotten. So I believe what enables Vietnamese language/culture to never be replaced is spirit and beliefs, we have pride for our country so we cling on to it.
• Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
As long as the Vietnamese generation of today still wants to cling on to their roots then anything can be maintained. But it also depends on the person, some just want to be “white,†they don’t want to be anything related to where they originated from. While others if not exposed to Vietnamese culture then it’s hard to maintain it, what’s to maintain if there’s nothing there to begin with.
• What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
Legends and early history suggest women as being courageous and are heroines such as the Trung sisters. The fight for their country, they fight in place of men. History suggests women as being intelligent and not the stereotypical mom at home scenario. They’re out there fighting, just like men. They don’t even get to taste the sweetness of love before having to put themselves out there on the forefront to fight.
• What do Confucian values say about women status?
Confucianists considered males to be superior to females. This can be seen in the many different ways Vietnamese phrase things. The most common is “con rong chau tien,†here rong (representing male) is placed first then tien (representing female). They are not on the same hierchical level. We get many other sayings where this is true such as “Long Phung,†long (male) is placed first then comes phung (phoenix – female). And it’s also not appropriate to say “nu nam,†not only is it grammically more correct to say “nam nu†but it sounds more correct in a way. A few instance where the female would be placed first is when describing something that’s already feminine in nature, such as a phoenix which we call “phung hoang.†Here phung is first then comes hoang, female before male.
• What does the oral tradition say about women status?
Not sure what the oral tradition said, please enlighten on this subject.
#2 Answers
According to the Vietnamese legends, women were described as bold and some did become the dominant figure of the countries such as the Trung sisters. The Lac Long Quan tale did not have evidence that it existed thus it contradict with the history regarding about women’s status. The Vietnamese culture during the era was influenced by Confucianism which favored male over female. This did not fit well into the explanation of women’s strong role in the era. Nguyen Dinh Hoa used linguistic to interpret women’s status – “Con Rong, Chau Tien†– Con rong refers to son of Lac Long Quan and Chau Tien – the children of grandparent, etc. taken second meaning elders are more important than parent. I wonder why not have the phrase “Con Rong, Con Tienâ€? between “con†and “cha’u†which one is more important?
As the author translate phrase from Vietnamese to English, do you think the meanings are lost in the translation? The idioms braced women as great as and even better than fathers / males. The Confucian values contradict the idioms perhaps this is the displacement that Vietnamese infuse into their culture. Confucian teaches women to submit to their husband when alive and submit to elder son if the father shall die. The oral tradition empowered women to be equal to the men. The women were allowed to marry many men if she likes but being modest she will not do so. Women’s status in the family seems to be important than father since the daughter has to bow 4 times.
(— since most of the idioms are under the Challenging Confucian Values on Women’s Status, I have few question —)
I’m not sure the phrases such as “Nhat vo nhi Troi†was it supposed to be a mocking instead taken in the literary term? And when was the phrases author used written and is it appropriate to compare with Confucian?
Question 1
The Vietnamese language is not 100% genetically related to Chinese but do share commonality. As result Chinese colonized in Vietnam, the Vietnamese accepted the writing system – Chu Nho. The Vietnamese language is complex compose of three different region with different accents – Ha Noi (north), Sai Gon (Ho Chi Minh City) (south) and Hue. The northern and southern areas of Vietnam dialect share few similarities to Chinese such as “Su Phu†(master) and “Sifu†but in Hue the dialect is easily differentiate. Vietnamese language is fused by many other languages besides Chinese.
The Vietnamese language to be displaced but never replaced due to the stubbornness of the Vietnamese people, learning to diffuse languages so that they can live more harmony and it is the nature of Vietnamese adapt to the environment.
I have doubts about Vietnamese language maintain in the Vietnamese diasporic community. It depends on the young generations of Vietnamese willing to learn their parent’s language when it seem strange to them. One way learn how to speak Vietnamese is to watch Chinese/Korean movies translate in Vietnamese voice but I don’t think it’s sufficient since the language used were not daily language. If the language could be maintain, the meaning of word will be a bit different.
— SOrry i didn’t mean to spam with two posts instead of 1… ^.^
Answers to questions from article #1:
Ans.1: This is a difficult question to answer, because, although the Vietnamese language has many roots, the roots of those roots are also relevant to the question. In the beginnings of the forging of such roots to both the Vietnamese and the Chinese language, the two languages are very likely to have genetic links, however distant.
Ans.2: It is through the maintenance of cultural roots that a displaced culture is capable of keeping their language from being displaced. The early Vietnamese valued their language as an integral part of their heritage, and if nothing else, the preservation of that language was at least a side effect of resistance to Chinese cultural domination.
Ans.3: I do believe that the Vietnamese language “could” be maintained in the Vietnamese diaspora communities, but I believe that in order for it to be done, there must be a desire to pass the language on as part of one’s heritage. This is a desire that seems to be strongly evident in older, more nostalgic generations of displaced Vietnamese communities in America, and not so strong in the generations that are following them. There seems to be a fog of Americanized complacency that has settled on the younger Vietnamese-American generations, inebriating them with a lack of concern for such things. Though that is not true for all, the likely hood is that the many will out number the few, and eventually, will likely lose touch with the Vietnamese language almost entirely.
Answers to questions from article #2:
Ans.1: Vietnamese legends and early history paint the Vietnamese woman as a portrait of heroine-ism, and strength, but also as one who however defiant, rarely overcomes. She inspires men to fight for her country. She seduces her homelands enemies, and potential conquerors into defeat, but still the king rules, for the most part.
Ans.2: Confucian values place women quite distinctly below men. Though there are some remnants of ancient Vietnamese reverence to women in folk songs, which are Confucian, they are merely remnants of the ancient value of women, and did not reflect the Confucian view on the matter.
Ans.3: The oral tradition, seems to have a lot to do with incest… not sure about the relevance of incest to woman’s place in Vietnamese society, but not asking… However, it seems to me that the oral traditions would be legends and folk songs, and folk stories, passed on by word of mouth. If this is the scope of the oral tradition in Vietnam, then it is highly likely that the women are viewed more like the legends and ancient histories portray them, and not likely for there to be as much Confucian influence on these oral traditions.
On Nguyen Dinh Hoa’s An Outline of Vietnamese:
According to the reading, Vietnamese as a language belongs to the Mon-Khmer stock within the Austro-Asiatic family and thus contrary to popular belief, Vietnamese is not genetically related to Chinese at all. In fact, lingual studies have pointed to the language and its close relationship to Muong, forming the Vietnamese-Muong group within the Mon-Khmer phylum. Language is an inherent part of culture and if the Vietnamese culture can only be displaced but never replaced, then the Vietnamese language will also never be replaced. To me, what has enabled our language to carry on and never be replaced is the Vietnamese people. The fact that Vietnamese who are displaced from Vietnam continue to speak the language and carry on the traditions of Vietnam in a foreign land means that the Vietnamese language cannot be replaced. As long as the Vietnamese culture, wherever it exists, continue to thrive, then the language will continue to thrive. I think that is very important for younger generations of Vietnamese to learn the language because it will prevent the language, and a significant part of the culture from being replaced. Nowadays I see 3rd generations and even 4th generations of Vietnamese kids not knowing a single word of Vietnamese or cannot speak it well and it’s sad for me to see. This leads me to the next question. Not only do I think that the Vietnamese language in the diasporic communities could be maintain, but it SHOULD be maintained. The older Vietnamese generations have a duty to introduce Vietnamese to the children, and have them learn the language so that they will be connected to Vietnam when they grow up. The language could be maintained with good Vietnamese language classes that actually help kids learn the language and not just waste time and money. It does starts with the parents though. Children model after their parents and so if the parents whole-heartedly understand about the value of keeping the language and culture, then I think that the children will benefit and will actually learn. Parents should try to talk to their children in Vietnamese because the more you speak it, the easier it is to learn, especially at a young age. In the future, at the current trend, I see a sort of dilution happening. As many young Vietnamese become more Americanized and don’t speak the language, then their kids will become less Vietnamese as well and so on until in a few more generations, I wonder if a dilution of the Vietnamese culture might happen. For myself, I see Vietnamese as my primary language and English as my secondary even if I know English better than Vietnamese. But for many young Vietnamese, English is the primary language and learning the Vietnamese language is just like learning Spanish….just something to learn, that’s all.
On Nguyen Van Ky’s article
It is interesting to note that the legends and early history of Vietnam depicted women as strong, brave, and heroic. The often referred to example is the Trung sisters. Vietnam has a long history of women in the forefront of things. They fought for the country and died alongside the men. The Lac Long Quan Legend suggest a matriarchal society since the Hung kings were from the 50 sons that Au Co took with her. Thus women’s status was high in Vietnamese society, that is until Confucian ideals came around. Here, women’s status took a dive as Confucius was essentially sexist and considered males to be superior to females. For example, in the article it says that “Confucian morality forbade a widow to remarry and obliged her to submit to her eldest son’s will in virtue of the three precepts of obedience (tam tong).†Clearly Confucian morality favored males as females were suppose to be good mothers and obedient to the males. So in a way, equality among the sexes took a huge leap backward when Confucian ideologies came about. However, Confucian morality did strengthen society because it gave the people codes to live by. I would like to see modern Vietnam look back on its ancient past and elect a woman head of state. That would be something to see. I do not know what the oral traditions regarded women.
Dr. Le,
I’m not sure if there is a right or wrong answer to these questions, however, I’ve answered these questions to the best of my knowledge using my opinion. Is that okay?
By the way, Chuc Mung Nam Moi!=D
First set of questions:
Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
-I do not belive that the Vietnamese language is genetically related to Chinese. Though Vietnam was part of the Chinese province, parellel development can lead to similarities in languages. For an example, contact between the languages can lead to borrowing of words.
What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced” but never “replaced”?
-I would imagine that it would be hard for a language to be completely replaced. If one is fluent in the Vietnamese language and stays true to their roots…it is only natural to speak and teach it to their family. Therefore, the Vietnamese language may be displaced but never replaced.
Do you think the Vietnamese language in the diasporic community can be maintained?
-It depends on the person. Whether or not they have the aspirations to continue either to learn, speak, or teach the Vietnamese language. Often times, there are those who feel displaced, and are often influenced or willing to change to another’s culture to feel comfortable.
Second set of questions:
What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
-Amazingly, legends and early history states that women were equal to men! They fought in wars and some were even educated.
What do Confucian values say about women status?
-Confucian values do not say very much about women, which shows how little they mattered. Women were generally regarded as unworthy, incapable of a literary education, and inferior to men.
What does the oral tradition say about women status?
-After reading the article, I wasn’t too sure in what oral traditions say about women status. However, I do agree with jlneel0511 when he stated that it might have to do with legends, folk songs, and folk stories. Maybe we need to go over this in class.
-Crystal-
• Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
- For as long as we’ve know. The Chinese has always created a history in the Vietnamese culture. One example includes the Vietnamese language. During the 10th century of the Chinese rule, there has been numbers of influences such as simple words, disyllables, and whole expressions. Maybe that is why a lot of the Chinese words sound similar to Vietnamese words. Though the Vietnamese was strongly influenced by the Chinese, it does not genetically relate to the Chinese. Instead, “It belongs rather to the Mon-Khmer stock within the Austro-Asiatic Family.†It is also composites from many other major spoken languages.
• What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
- Although the country Vietnam is smaller then compared to most other countries. One thing noble about it is how no matter who tries to conquer it. We always hold onto our culture, our beliefs, and historical values. Many other countries may influence Vietnam, but they cannot change it, nor replace our roots. Even when the Vietnamese were displaced in different regions of Vietnam, the culture and dialect my have been different, but the Vietnamese language remained the same. I believe Vietnamese people are resilient people, and that is what enables us to hold onto our values. Even though we have faced many harsh winds, we still manage to stand tall.
• Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
- If we still want to preserve our language in the diasporic community today, it is really up to our generation to do something about it. Whether we put our children through Vietnamese school, or how frequent we speak Vietnamese at home, it can really make an impact on maintaining our language. However, I believe that sooner or later, maybe around the 6th or 7th generation, the majority of the Vietnamese language will fade away at this rate. With many kids in our generation today not understand a word in Vietnamese or knowing very minimum words in the language, which is to say that the language will not be used anymore, or spoken incorrectly. Of course the language will never completely forgotten because there are still many people living in Vietnam whom can continue to preserve the language. But for the majority of the Vietnamese-Americans living in America today, they will eventually adapt to speaking just English.
• What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
- According to Vietnamese legends and myth. There may have been evidence that the Vietnamese woman may have been in equal status to the men. The article starts with the Trung sister and how woman were allowed to go into combat with the fighting men. Other point stated in that story of Lac Long Quan and Au Co. Even though they couple separated, Au Co was allowed to take an even number of children to leave with her up the mountains as Lac Long Quan, not more or less.
• What do Confucian values say about women status?
- Up until the time of Confucian, women were considered equal value to the men. This makes the Vietnamese culture extremely different from many other cultures because the women from other cultures didn’t have the power to fight or speak as the men did. One point in the article that I thought made a really good point was. If Au Co and Lac Long Quan started the country with 100 sons, how did they manage to reproduce the entire Vietnamese population? But then again, one should not consider these myths and stories into such logical aspects. I consider the Confucian way of life to be a very demeaning for the women during that period. Many evidences in the articles state many lines in the Confucian poem that speaks very poorly down to women. How men are superior and woman doesn’t deserve as much respect or bows because they will eventually go off and marry their husbands. Only males are allowed to officiate and pronounce out loud codified formulas of the Chinese origin.
• What does the oral tradition say about women status?
- The oral tradition speaks for a lot of incest and how it will bring prosperity. However, I suppose one evidence from the reading may be “A girl of seventeen, let her not sleep with her father.†So I am assuming that the females in the oral traditions are consider girls until they’ve reached the age of 17. At 18 that is when they can consider themselves as a woman, and marry to their maternal uncle’s nephew. Since the women are allowed to marry their brother, the women have an equal status amongst the men because they are family.
• Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
According to the article, native Vietnamese speakers claim they are descent from the movements of the major agriculturalist language families specifically that of Austroasiatic. The article described Vietnamese a Mon-Khmer language of the Austroasiastic family.
• What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
I believe adversity is what made Vietnamese language and culture remain displaced but never replaced. The difficult times that Vietnamese have experienced become part of their culture.
• Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
Yes, I believe Vietnamese diasporic community would maintain Vietnamese language. People with common interest will stay together. For example, Asians in America will stay in China Town when the type of communication is limited.
• What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
Vietnamese legends and history like Lac Long Quan and Trung sisters’ rebellion shows that women have an equal or higher statuses than men compare to other area of the world.
• What do Confucian values say about women status?
Confucianism influences in China, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, and Vietnam. Confucian believed that male have a higher status than female. His belief include “junzi†(nobleman) as a perfect man that all people should strive.
• What does the oral tradition say about women status?
Oral tradition is a way to give information by word of mouth when there was no writing system created. The article did not mention the relationship between oral tradition and women’s status.
Well, I am kind of confused what legends say about status of woman. Yes they mention about Trung sisters, regards as national heroines in Vietnam. But then when it comes to the story about Lac Long Quan and Au Co, this couple gave birth to a hundred sons, not even one daughter. Is it meaning that man is more important than woman? In my opinion, even though legends think woman are wisdom but woman are not as important as man. Looking at what they gives the title for this mythical couple “Lac Long Quan†and “Ba Au Coâ€, Quan is symbol for King, in a country, no one is higher than king, so no matter what Au Co title is, she is still under Lac Long. In this article, author mostly mentions the role of women in family but not in society. It seems like Confucian gives woman higher role than man, but Confucian has very narrow minded about woman, example “tam to`ng, tu’ dducâ€, and this phase is only apply for woman. This article gives me a blur view about oral tradition about women status, but as I know, back then women needs to learn how serve their husband, and take care housework rather than go to school to get more education.
Vietnamese language originally based in northern Vietnam, and part of Austro-Asiatic family and later on adapted from Latin alphabet. In our school, we have Vietnamese language class; this class will spread out Vietnamese language to everybody, and it also helps us, Vietnamese people, to maintain our own language.
• Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
I believe the Vietnamese language is somewhat related to Chinese. In fact, was it not proven that it was the Chinese that created the name Nam Viet, which is now Viet Nam?
• What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
The Vietnamese language has stayed orginal throughout many years. Although when Vietnam was colonized by other countries they were forced to cope and adjust, yet they still manage to keep their roots. The language has been displaced,uprooted, yet never replaced by another language, it has remained the way it is.
• Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
I feel that as long as people continue to use the language, it will maintain forever. As long as those who speak Vietnamese, never submit to giving it up, they can continue on to use it.
• What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
The Vietnamese legends, surprisingly, do not portray the women as lower than men or as their property. I find this amazing because even in Chinese legends, sometimes the women dont even get the respect they deserve. This proves that the Vietenamese culture treats both men and women on the same level if not better. The women can take the men’s place in the war, that is definitely not common back in China, in fact I still feel that the women are submissive to men. If anyone has every seen the Disney movie Mulan, back in China, woment werent allowed to do such things.
• What do Confucian values say about women status?
Basically, it doesnt value women. Thats pretty much the basis of it. This actually quite saddens me because I am Chinese and Confucian originated from China. One of the many bad outcomes this led to is that even now in China, women are still submissive to men! Its like a rule of thumb that continues on. Luckily enough I am not in China.
• What does the oral tradition say about women status?
I ponder did these oral traditions originate from Vietnam or China, because even in China we go by that, well we used to at least. It is not considered as incest if they are seperated by maternal and paternal. It doesnt really speak much about the women values. Basically it speaks about women and men and their traditions in marriage.
PART ONE OF TWO
• What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
strong, willing to go out and fight for the country. the Trung sisters were said to be the first historical figures(non-myth)to fight against the chinese (and they were from viet nam so that makes vietnamese people cool and non-sexist)
• What do Confucian values say about women status?
women are inferior to men. but there seems to be some things that would contradict confucian values, like the poems:
Cong cha nhu nui Thai Son
Nghia me nhu nuoc trong nguon chay ra
Mot long tho me kinh cha
Cho tron chu hieu moi la dao con.
tho me, would seem like almost worshipping or honoring, but the father is only respected. i think deep down inside, confucians like women better than men.
• What does the oral tradition say about women status?
the the vietnamese ca dao says many things about the women. they have a choice in what they can do. it also seems that the women of viet nam are more honored than the men.
even when i was a child, my mother used to tell me how great the vietnamese women were (back in the day). everytime we would refer to something it would have something about “mother” in the sentence.
ex: mother land, when we say “duc ba chua, etc.
1) One could say that Vietnamese is related to Chinese because there are some similarities, but according to the article Vietnamese was a Mon-Khmer language.
2) I believe it was the Vietnamese’s strong belief to keep and hold onto their culture no matter what foreign powers try to do.
3) Yes, because asian people usually tend to live in the same area, or at least have a central focal point to meet with other asian people. This is shown by the China Towns that are located all over the world.
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1) It says that women could hold more power and status than those of men.
2) Confucian places the status of a male higher than that of a woman’s. Women were often neglected and viewed as inferior to males in Asian countries influenced by Confucian.
3) It’s kinda sketchy so I’m not sure what the article is implying, but after reading other comments uhm… incest? <_<
1.) Nguyen Dinh Hoa, “An Outline of Vietnamese,†Vietnam Forum, Vol.11, 1988, (p.1-20).
The origin of the Vietnamese language is not genetically related to Chinese but instead, is traced back to the Mon-Khmer group with Muong as the sister language. Throughout its history and in present-day, Vietnamese is also influenced by other languages from the Tai family, Chinese, and French. With a mixed variety of sources, Vietnamese has a distinction between the Chinese, Japanese, and Korean languages which consist of characters. Vietnamese’s different use of Roman script was enabled by the French colonists whereas this simpler writing system is still used today. Therefore, by having unique characters and tones different from the dominating Chinese imperialists, the Vietnamese language has been “displaced but never replaced.†While maintaining an independent identity through language that couldn’t be replaced, there was still displacement in regards to the separation it created. It is indubitably possible to maintain the Vietnamese language in the diasporic community. In order to ensure this, Vietnamese language classes can be taken while parents teach their children as well. It is vital for adults to maintain the tradition of constantly communicating and educating the next generations of their own Vietnamese language. To grasp the importance of Vietnamese language, people must understand their culture and the significance of having a unique form of communication. Through the Vietnamese language, they may be able to develop better relationships with their family members and peers on a cultural foundation.
2.) Nguyen Van Ky, “Rethinking the Status of Women in Folklore and Oral History,†in Gisele Bousquet and Pierre Brocheux, eds., Viet Nam Expose: French Scholarship on Twentieth-Century Vietnamese Society (Ann Harbor: The University of Michigan Press, 2005).
Early history and legends such as the stories of Lac Long and the Trung Sisters, women are more liberated than women in the Western hemisphere. Their status portrays one of fortitude and strength as some also participate in fighting for Vietnam and themselves. Au Co in Lac Long’s legend was given an equal number of sons which demonstrates the equality between a man and a woman. However, Confucian values regarding women status involves more restriction. Fathers are given more precedence than the mothers. In oral tradition, spouses are portrayed to have a kinship. Yet, upon colonial rule from the French, contemporary movements took place which allowed for women to elevate their status towards equality. Women began to have university degrees and gained more recognition in society and politics. Throughout the change of Vietnam’s women statuses, tradition and custom is still maintained while modern times still enable uniformity.
• Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
The vietnamese language is not at all genetically related to the chinese, but they are however related to Mon-khmer stock. This is within the Austro-aisatic family that compromises several major language groups spoken in a wide area.
• What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
In the begaining of the Christian era, vietnamese was a non-tonal language and then developed 3 tones in the 6th century. By the 12th century the vietnamese language has acquired 6 tones which charactarised it today. Although it has different tones and it has changed a bit through out time, it has been “displaced, but never replaced”.
• Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
I think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained of course. Through out these years, this language has been changed depending on which area of vietnam they were brought up. As long as everybody practices this language throughout each generation the vietnamese culture will still maintain the way it should.
• What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
In the early history women had a low social representation and they were absence, however in the Vietnamese history the women were the ones who made the choice. Moreover she could marry more than one man. The Vietnamese women has shown both determination and combativeness. Also when they mention husband and wife they use “vo chong” which states wife-husband so the wife comes first.
• What do Confucian values say about women status?
Confucian predominance of men over women. His values considered males superior to females. In one of his lines it states the mother is “to be revered and father respected”. Which basically gives the father a dominant position
• What does the oral tradition say about women status?
I do not see the relationship between the oral tradition and women status because all that was mentioned was proverbs about incest.
Article 1
1. Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
I do not think that the Vietnamese language genetically related to the Chinese because the Vietnamese were not initially part of the Chinese, the Chinese might have influenced the language alittle witin there time of rule but the languages still differ from each other.
2. What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
Througout the centuries the tone of vietnamese language may of been changed alittle but its main roots of the language are still intact which means that it got displaced over time but it was never completely replaced whatsoever.
3. Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
I think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained as long as the future generations continue to learn about Vietnamese language and culture and the current generations teach time to the future ones.
Article 2
1. What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
According to early history, women were portrayed as being more important then men. It said that it was the women that choose there husbands and that they can have more then one husband if they wanted to.
2. What do Confucian values say about women status?
Compared to the way early Vietnamese history viewed women status the Confucian values viewed it differently with alot more limitations and restrictions to women status. It forbade a widow to remarry and obliged her to sumbit to her eldest son’s will.
3. What does the oral tradition say about women status?
After reading the section about oral tradition, I would have to agree with everyone else about how they couldn’t really find any connect between oral traditon and women status because what was mention was about incent.
“Vietnamese were displaced, they were never replaced.†I agree with this statement. It reminded me of my personal experience when I first came to the “land of opportunityâ€:
A malnourished Vietnamese girl came to the United States of America at a young age. Like other immigrants who came to the “land of opportunityâ€, she was overwhelmed by her surroundings. She were very please with the little English she knew. She felt she was adapting well when she answered simple questions with simple answers such as yes and no. Most of the time nonverbal communication was the form of communication. The honest truth is she knew very little about the English language. Progressively, she began to understand the English language as she was exposed to more of it. She only needed to increase her vocabulary and pronounce the words in an American way. She watched Barney, the purple dinosaur, in order to learn the basics of pronouncing words. Furthermore, she tried to practice the English language by communicating to her family in English. She wanted to blend in with the rest of her classmates.
During elementary school, in her ESL science class, her teacher explained the word fire by lighting a Bunsen burner and pretended to burn her fingers and she yelled “OUCH! Fire is hot!†After getting lost in the flame of fire, she daydreamed of coconut trees, dirt roads, and her friends who are back at home. She was one of the top students in her class back at home in Vietnam. Suddenly, she wondered how she ended up in such a silly class.
Every morning, when she stepped onto the bus to go to school, it reminded her of how different her family was from the other students. For example, there was a boy on the bus who always talked about what he does with his family. He was talking to his friend about a movie that he had seen with his parents the previous night. Others talked about their after school activities; they were hanging out at the park, going to the zoo, or watching cartoon-network. When asked to talk about her life, she didn’t say much. Besides who really had the time to explain the numerous reasons why there was a world of differences between her leisure time and her family life, in general and theirs?
Throughout her school years, race never crossed her mind. Her friends were the people whom she got along with, and they liked the same things she did. It never occurred to her that she should separate them into categories. She fitted into the American-blend of hamburgers and Britney Spear’s music. How foolish she was to think she could drain away the blood that runs through her veins. She is not as “Vietnamese†as she thought; then again, she is not as “American†as expected. Perhaps something happened to her on her way across the Pacific Ocean. She adapted to a new lifestyle but never blossomed into the true American because her Vietnamese roots never have gotten tangled or torn. After all, she is still a Vietnamese girl who tightly holding on to her bowl of rice.
Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
According to the article, Vietnamese belongs to the Mon-Khmer stock within the Austro-Asiatic family; therefore not making it genetically related to Chinese. I found this surprising because a lot of Vietnamese and Chinese words are similar and relate with each other. I have both Chinese and Vietnamese within my family from my maternal and paternal sides; and for the longest time, I never realized the difference between the “Chinamese†spoken in the family. For example, my brothers do not call me “Chi Hai†as older sister, but rather the Chinese equivalent.
What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
A majority of Vietnamese history and its people describe stories of victimized and colonized displacement. Because the Vietnamese people have such strong desires to keep to their traditions and carry them onto others, I believe that Vietnamese language will never be displaced. Whenever I go to a place that has a majority of American people, it always warms my heart to hear Vietnamese being spoken, even if it’s a wife yelling at her husband. As far as the language being replaced, Vietnamese has gone through transformations to be more understandable or easier for its people, but I do not think it has not changed completely.
Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
Honestly, if we do not keep younger generations in sync with Vietnamese language, traditions and values, more than likely, it will be lost. It is up to the older generations to “enforce†Vietnamese culture in order for it to be maintained. In my family, my father requires my brothers and I to speak Vietnamese. My Vietnamese is still pretty good, but it is not as fluent as when I was younger. As for my brothers, they can get by, but the youngest can’t even count in Vietnamese. Like stories of folklore, as long as you keep telling the story, you will remember it. Stop telling it, we’ll eventually lose it in time.
What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
Women status was considered equal to men. They were also seen as strong characters that actually mattered in history. They were heroines and allowed to fight amongst males. The story of the Trung sisters and Lac Long Quan and Au Co are prime examples of the importance of women’s roles. In agreeing with Tpham, I found it interesting that Au Co only gave birth to 100 males and no females.
What do Confucian values say about women status?
Confucian beliefs call for the female to be submissive and weaker than the male. In the article, it talks about the wife being submissive to the husband when alive and obedient to the eldest son if he passes. I also heard somewhere that if the dead husband’s brother wants to marry the widow, he is allowed to do so. An example that is still common today is when a couple marries; the wife follows the husband to live with his family. It is rare for it to happen vice versa. During funerals for fathers, the eldest son, regardless if there are older sisters, is responsible for duties to be carried out.
What does the oral tradition say about women status?
In reading other comments, oral traditions had to do with incest. I don’t really understand what that would have to do with women status, other than why males would want to follow that practice. Most believers that practice incest today want the blood in their lineage to be pure. That purity keeps the power within the family. By marrying outside, you dilute that bloodline and power is shifted or lost.
Replying to comment of Lan Nguyen..
҉ۢ Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
As long as the Vietnamese generation of today still wants to cling on to their roots then anything can be maintained. But it also depends on the person, some just want to be “white,†they don’t want to be anything related to where they originated from. While others if not exposed to Vietnamese culture then it’s hard to maintain it, what’s to maintain if there’s nothing there to begin with.”
You are right in stating that those who willing to expose to the culture will maintain it. However, how do we expose to our culture these days? Our parents are too busy with working and seldom at home to expose us to our culture, nor even tell us those myths. In no disrespect, I want to thanks all parents that sacrificed their lives and worked hard to raise us. However, does money and fancy car really going to help us maintain our culture? In addition, most Vietnamese parents want their children to study hard, hit the book all the time to become doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, etc.. So, our parents are too busy at work, and we are too busy studying to be doctors and lawyers. This happened to us when we were little , which delayed us from familiarizing with our Vietnamese language and culture. A majority of the young generation have gone through these situations. As they growing up, it is even harder for them to have an interest in learning about Vietnamese roots.
In order to maintain the culture, the elders and younger generations must work together. The elders should not be too strict on the younger generation, or else it only drives them away. The young generation seems to adopt to the new living style quicker, and the elders must adopt somewhat in order to understand the young generation. As long as the elder generation willing to let go some , not all, of their stubbornness and old fashion beliefs, such as ‘ I am older and I am always right’ etc. then the relationship b/w the two generations will be better and Vietnamese culture will be maintained in a healthy relationship.
by: Linh V. Vo
• Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
With the Vietnamese language having many roots, it is hard to pinpoint the exact point where the two crossed. In the reading however it’s been narrowed down that it belonged to the “Mon-Khmer stock within the Austro-Asiatic familyâ€. There may be similarities but not direct relationship in my opinion. We have more food in common than we do language.
• What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
From attending your lectures I have gotten a better understanding of our Vietnamese culture how strong we feel about it. Despite the many attempts of colonization from France, Japan, and china we have never forgotten our roots and have returned to what is natural to us.
• Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
I believe that as the generations continue on in the U.S. the language might not be as strong but it will always be there. Take your daughters for example, they are being taught the language and culture at a young age and when they grow older they will pass on their teachers and the cycle never ends. They will always know they are Vietnamese at heart and will always return to their roots no matter how Americanized they are.
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• What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
It Vietnamese culture the country saluted Trung sisters and were said to be the first historical figures. They fought against the Chinese to gain freedom and built a reputation for Vietnamese women all around. I think the one person who is grateful for women is my Dad without my mom’s say and helping hand our household would go as smoothly as it is.
• What do Confucian values say about women status?
I’ve always heard stories about how the Chinese saw women as inferiors to men, but after reading this article there is some truth to it. Confucian saw men as being the superior and dominant. Women were often neglected and looked down upon. There was also a time where families were not allowed to give birth to females babies and were most often aborted.
• What does the oral tradition say about women status?
The readings mention a lot about the incest practice. There is not direct connection to the status of women from the readings. My only opinion is that they may have wanted to literally keep everything in the family to sustain a champion bloodline.
-Thanh Tan
Article 1- 1. Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
- Although the Vietnamese and Chinese languages have their similarities, the languages come from different families. Undoubtly the Vietnamese language has been influenced by the Chinese during the time of Chinese invasion in Vietnam. The Vietnamese language though has its own unique sounds and words, and the root of the Vietnamese language can be traced back to the Mon-Khmer language of the Austroasiastic family.
2. What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
-As the Vietnam war tore through Vietnam, a lot of Vietnamese people were forced to immigrate from Vietnam to various parts of the world. The Vietnamese language though has and will continue to be spoken by the proud members of the Vietnamese community. You can seperate the people but they will remain true to their roots and culture. The Vietnamese community is a prime example of this as they continue to speak a language that may not be popular or widely spoken in their foreign county. Even though they are no longer in their native land, Vietnamese people will still speak Vietnamese because its makes them feel unique and part of the Vietnamese community.
3.Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained?
- I think it will grow increasingly harder for the Vietnamese language to survive in the Vietnamese disasporic as the older generation of Vietamese people began to die off. Most Vietnamese people now are American born and are so entrenched in the American culture that it is diffucult to be influenced by the Vietnamese community. Most Vietnamese kids these days don’t want to learn from their parents and grandparents the Vietnamese language. This will turn into a cycle as they wont know how to teach their kids the Vietnamese language. In my family, my grandpa always wants me to learn about the language and culture of Vietnam, but I am never interested in learning anything about a culture I know nothing about.
Article 2
1. What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
Unlike most cultures around the world, the Vietnamese culture places an important emphasis on women. The Trung sisters are possibly the most important legend in Vietnamese history, and the story tells of two brave and honorable sisters who died heroically for their counrty. Vietnamese people even from eariler value women as much if not more then men.
2. What do Confucian values say about women status?
Women were far less important in Confucian values compared to Vietnamese history. Women were seen as the far less important sex and suppossed to obey the authority of men. Wives were expected to be almost slave like to their husband. A male baby was much more valued than a female baby.
3. What does the oral tradition say about women status?
The only thing kinda of related to the oral tradition on woman status is about incest which there really doesn’t seem to be much of a connection.
• Is the Vietnamese language genetically related to Chinese?
• What has enabled the Vietnamese language to be “displaced but never replaced�
• Do you think the Vietnamese language in the Vietnamese diasporic community could be maintained
1) The Vietnamese language isn’t genetically related to Chinese. Eventhough the Chinese influence has been around Vietnam for many years and some words have been adapted,the Vietnamese language is, described in the aritcle, a Mon-Khmer language of the Austroasiastics.
2) The Vietnamese language as been “displaced but never replaced” by the strong identity that many Vietnamese people still hold to today. They do dont want to be recognized as Chinese or any other asian ethnicity. I believe by keeping the language and displacing it over the centuries allows the Vietnamese identity to still remain today.
3) I honestly think that the Vietnamese language in todays diasporic communities can still be maintained if third generation Vietnamese make an effort to speak, read, and write Vietnamese. Many young generations in todays Vietnameses communities do not make an effort to speak Vietnamese as opposed to the first generations when Vietnamese was their first language.
Part One/Two:
1. What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women’s status?
The country is a strong country that is willing to fight for its society. The Trung sisters were the first historical figure that fought against the Chinese beliefs.
2. What do Confucian values say about women status?
Confucian beliefs say that women were rather inferior to men although there are many indications that women were not as inferior to men as sought out to be.
3. What does the oral tradition say about women status?
The Vietnamese society believes that women have their own mind and given their own choice as to everyday choices made within Vietnam. Women are also seen as more honorable then what is reflected on other societies such as the Chinese or the Japanese culture.
• What do Vietnamese legends and early history say about women status?
• What do Confucian values say about women status?
• What does the oral tradition say about women status?
1) According to the Vietnamese legends and early history, women have been labled as strong and couragous. For example, the Trung Sisters. The legend tells about two sisters, Trung Sisters, and how they fought battles and took over cities after hearing about one of the sister’s husbands power overthrow. This just shows that woman can do all the things men do, even in battle.
2)Confucian says that men and women are not equal and that men are valued way more than women.